BOULDER, CO (January 13, 2026) — In this month's episode of NEPC Talks Education, Christopher Saldaña speaks with Roseann Liu and David Backer about their approaches to K-12 school finance research and why understanding the human dimensions of education funding is essential for achieving equity. Liu, a professor of educational studies and Asian American studies at Swarthmore College, is an anthropologist. Her recent book, Designed to Fail: Why Racial Equity in School Funding Is So Hard to Achieve, uses ethnographic methods to make visible what she calls the story behind the numbers. Backer, a professor of Education Policy at the College of Human Development, Culture and Media at Seton Hall University, draws on philosophy and critical theory in his new book, As Public As Possible, to offer a witty and provocative treatise on the financial policies we'll need to make our public schools work for all children.

Despite their different disciplinary backgrounds, both scholars share the view that school funding is not primarily a technical problem requiring a technical fix. They argue that American school funding reflects the impact of a fundamental racial and political problem; i.e., U.S. society does not assign the same value to all children’s lives. As a result, not all children receive school funding adequate to meet their needs based on those values.

In this month’s episode, we discuss how both scholars bring humans to the forefront of their school finance research. Liu's ethnographic work traces the small and seemingly insignificant decisions that end up maintaining racial inequities in school funding, revealing the alliances, betrayals, and political maneuvering that shape how money gets distributed. Backer approaches school finance with a novelist's eye for narrative, finding drama and tension in bond statements and funding formulas.

Both scholars highlight Pennsylvania and Philadelphia as instructive cases for understanding school finance nationally. Backer describes Philadelphia as the canary in the coal mine for school infrastructure, where toxic buildings with asbestos, lead in the water, and crumbling ceilings reveal the deadly consequences of a failure to invest in those schools. Similarly, Liu's research in Pennsylvania found mechanisms of inequity in state funding policy design and implementation that resonate across other states, suggesting these patterns are not unique but rather reflect broader systemic failures.

Both scholars stress the importance of scholars and activists understanding that both vision and stamina are needed to sustain themselves in what will be a lifelong struggle to expose the values and dismantle the structures that have embedded inequity at the heart of educational finance. Lui encourages advocates to move beyond transactional hope and exercise radical imagination about what schools deserve, rather than accepting myths of false scarcity when billions sit in state coffers. Backer argues for making public education as public as possible through innovative approaches like green fiscal mutualism, which would use teacher pensions and green banks to create virtuous cycles of public investment in school infrastructure without relying on traditional Wall Street financing.

A new NEPC Talks Education podcast episode, hosted by Christopher Saldaña, will be released each month from September through May. 

Don’t worry if you miss a month. All episodes are archived on the NEPC website and can be found here.

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